photographer: RICHARD MITCHELL

For our 15th birthday, we decided to look at some of the changes that have happened across America since 1991. And what better way to do that than with 7 preeminent gays, some damn-good food and a few bottles of wine. For our lunch, we invited the prolific writer Edmund White, the HRC activist and gay youth outreach guru Candace Gingrich, the talented and unapologetic photographer Anthony Goicolea, the founding editor of POZ and current editor of People en Español Richard Pérez-Feria, Hollywood producer and writer Patrik-Ian Polk, performance artist and writer Mike Albo and director, actor, writer and Tony-winner Alan Cumming. From pop culture to politics to friends to enemies—our 7 guests told us what they had seen and experienced and gave us some clues about where we should be headed over the next 15 years. Cheers!

GENRE:
What do you think have been the biggest cultural events to affect our lives as gays since 1991, when GENRE first went to press?

Alan: I think the San Francisco marriage thing was huge because it brought so many things about being gay together. It changed many people’s opinions—people who have never dealt with gay issues—and got them excited about it.

Richard: That one act changed the gay-rights movement from being pop-culturally important—like Will & Grace became a significant act, because people in Milwaukee suddenly knew someone gay on television. That act from [San Francisco Mayor] Gavin Newsom made it politically violent, where it transcended the funny neighbor next door. It became something political and real, affecting everyone. Like, who’s against love?

Edmund: Initially, I was opposed to the whole idea of gay marriage, because I was from that generation that was opposed to assimilation, and I believed that gays had a special destiny. Then, when I saw how opposed to the idea of gay marriage the Christian right was, I thought, “Well, if they hate it that much, it can’t be all bad.”

Anthony: The one tricky thing that kind of struck me was the word “marriage,” because to me that has the connotation of religion. I could understand asking for the right of marriage because it’s an equal rights thing, but it almost seems religious and separate from the state. Personally, I would just be happy with a union.

Edmund: I would be too, but that’s not very popular. I had a debate with Andrew Sullivan, and he said to me, “Admit it,

Edmund: The worst minute of your life was when you realized you wouldn’t be able to marry to your boyfriend.” And I said, “Huh, excuse me? In my generation, the only people who liked gays and the people who we grew up amongst were bohemians, straight bohemians, artists, who themselves didn’t want to get married.” I don’t want to get married, but I’ll die for another gay person’s right to be married. Wait, has anyone here had a ritual?

Alan: No.

Edmund: This weekend? The Vegas chapel?

Patrik-Ian: But, do you think that the way the issue was forced onto people really helped the cause? Some people are of the opinion that it pushed us so much farther back, due to the huge backlash. For African-Americans, Latin-Americans, there’s not even a chance. It’s not even remotely in play.

Richard: There’s no coming back. If white America can embrace gay marriage, then we have a chance of getting a majority of the country to support us.

Anthony: There’s that argument that it all came out at a bad time, but then it has to come out at some time. And you sort of always feel like asking for more than you know you’re going to get.

Edmund: And you wouldn’t have asked black people to defer their rights until after the election, yet gays are always being asked to do that.

Candace: Putting fear into people, that’s the right wing’s method of politics. But, the more we talk about all those rights that come with marriage, the more people are able to realize that this is a gigantic issue. Yes, there’s a ceremony, if you want to have one and spend all the money, but really, that’s such a small part. Whether it’s in our lives or showing families that are hurt by not having those rights; you know, there are 1,043 rights that come with marriage.

Alan: I think Middle America thinks that there are going to be big drag queens stomping down the middle of the church aisle every Sunday.

Mike: I go home every Christmas and Thanksgiving, and listen to my Republican family talk about…

Candace: This sounds familiar…

All: [Laugh]

Mike: And, this past Christmas, my brother (whom I love), was like, “…and that’s why I was for the Defense of Marriage Act.” I was just, like, “Whoa.” It’s so interesting to listen to their side sometimes—his whole thing is, “Mike, you don’t want to get married. There’s the taxes; they’re more of a burden.” They go right to the money. And the way I think a lot of Republicans see things, not to put them all in one category, is in terms of economic issues.

Edmund: The word “marriage” is the issue. Call it “Faggots in Love: The Ceremony.” I don’t care what you call it, just give me the rights they have.

Patrik-Ian: I think it’s also this issue of privilege, because we have gay white people, but they’re still white. White people, quite frankly, grow up with an unbelievable amount of privilege just because they’re white. And so you have these gay white men, for example, who grow up and they’re looking at their straight counterparts who get this and get that, and they’re thinking, “I deserve this too, and I’m gonna get it.”

Richard: I mean, there are a hundred million people of color in this country. A third of this country is of color, and even within that set, it’s completely divided and confusing and scary. So, I do think we need to get the white people on board first.

GENRE: Does “gay community” still mean “white people”? It was like that in the past, is it still like this?

Richard: Kind of.

Patrik-Ian: In theory, you think gay people should be inclined to be more tolerant and open-minded, but it’s just hogwash. I remember moving to L.A. in the late ’90s and going to clubs in West Hollywood, and just feeling completely invisible and weird and out of place. Last year even, at The Abbey, Sundays became the de facto black hangout place, and I heard that the owners were very resistant to that. So, last year, they instituted a dress code that banned hip hop gear, and I thought, “This is 2005, you’re kidding me!” And it lasted about a week and a half, because it was about to explode into the biggest PR scandal, but this is the kind of stuff that’s going on. It’s still a problem; we’re so fragmented.

GENRE: How have gay movies changed? A little over 10 years ago, the big gay film was Philadelphia—a noble film, but the gay character is a victim and he’s dying of AIDS. Have images changed? Cut to Brokeback Mountain, all these years later.

Anthony: One thing I think is really interesting about these movies like Philadelphia and Brokeback Mountain, is that they’re hiring straight actors to play gay men, because somehow that makes it okay to watch the film.

Edmund: And then they congratulate them on how courageous they were to play those roles. Rupert Everett and Alan Cumming in Brokeback Mountain 2 would be hot.

Anthony: I think there’s something about knowing it’s Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger that makes it someone you relate to.

Edmund: It’s not just that. It’s two straight screenwriters, a straight director and two straight actors playing characters who are essentially straight.

Richard: You know, I’m going to dissent. I think talent is talent. I’m not saying there’s no gay person able to do the Heath Ledger role; I’m just saying you have to hire the best person.

Alan: It’s like if it’s a football player film, would you have to know how to play football to play the role? If you were a murderer, would you have to murder someone? I think that’s the wrong issue. I think the issue is that it should be easier for people to be open about their sexuality.

Patrik-Ian: But if Alan had Brad Pitt’s career, would that be different?

Alan: Well, yes, I mean, that’s the thing. But, I might not want to do the things he’d do.

Richard: Like Troy. Sandals…

Alan: It’s hard to know. You know what kind of grossed me out, though? At the premiere of Brokeback Mountain, the Logo press came up to Jake and asked, “So, what was it like getting fucked by Heath?” Right there on the red carpet.

All: Whoa.

For the full interview, pick up a copy of GENRE.

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